| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
467
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 03:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
OP is totally right. Remember how CCP never nerfed Falcon range and so everyone still has a Falcon alt?
Long-term game balance is far more important for CCP's bottom line than short-term alt subscriptions. CCP isn't dumb and recognizes this. Off-grid boosting is going to be removed. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
468
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:Why do you think falcons are still viable and not just removed from the game? People pay subs for these alts, and this creates more revenue. They are not short-term alt subs either, I've been running my alt for more than 2 years.
Yes, but Falcon alts are of sharply limited use since they have to be close enough that you have to pay attention to them. Just like boosting characters will still be useful, but boosting alts will be terrible because you'll actually have to pay attention to them.
Quote:CCP needs money bad since they are working on two games now instead of one, did you forget that dust 514 existed? Oh wait, theres also world of darkness. Why do you assume CCP doesn't want $?
I don't recall saying CCP doesn't want money, I recall saying that they make more money by fixing their game.
Quote: And long term balance is more important than subs? LoL. Do you not remember how long hybrids were horrible for? I for one didn't even expect them to ever balance that weapon system. And It isn't "balance is good" It is "greed is good
" They were mediocre, but not really bad. You're aware that the buff they got was relatively minor, yes? |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
471
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 03:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:I tend to think it's bad form to just wreck a working system on the belief that the new state might be better than the old one. There's absolutely no reason we can't both have what we want in a reasonable time frame.
It is not a working system. It adds virtually nothing to the game, and forces people to avoid specific systems, corporations, and players because fighting someone who is boosted is just not worth their time. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
474
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 17:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:I'm talking about those of us that want to be able to fight outnumbered and still have a chance of winning. Without OGBs this becomes so hard that it isn't even worth doing.
So it's about ego. You want to be able to talk about how you fight outnumbered and win, and then brag to all your friends about it what an elite PVPer you are.
Fighting outnumbered is supposed to be hard. "I can't fight outnumbered and win" isn't a balance argument. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Nice job just pulling things out of your ass and assuming things.
Fighting outnumbered isn't easy, without OGBs it will be damn near impossible.
And I don't care about my ego at all, I don't know where you are getting these random accusations. And I never brag to anybody about how l33t I am or how awesome I am at PvP. I don't like it if somebody doesn't post on their main, but that is nothing like that.
If you can't come up with a logical argument and instead resort to making things up and insulting then I can't take you seriously.
What else could I get from the fact that you feel entitled to winning many vs one fights? Winning a many-person-vs-one fight is damn near impossible because you're fighting multiple other people who are very likely competent in PVP. Without boosters you could simply look for fights that are less "Nigh impossible", but no...you specifically want to go into fights where it's you against 2-3+ others and win. Why is that?
Moreover, why don't you just fly more expensive ships? Instead of trying to fight outnumbered against ships of your own class (which is folly unless you outplay the hell out of your opponents), why don't you just fly something shinier or bigger...Fly a rupture into a small gang of t1 frigates? Send a Hurricane against a couple cruisers.
There is only one reason why the above isn't acceptable to you. Your opponents would actually get to see your advantage. The killboard would show your advantage.
Moreover, you only need one boosting character for a fleet of virtually any size. It's dumb to say that OGBs are a boost to small gangs when it's far easier for a blob to have boosts. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:Why do I like to fight more people? It's not because "I like to pad my KB" and "brag about being l33t to my friends", its because It is fun.
Then why not fly bigger or more expensive ships against lesser ships?
Quote: I like the rush of adrenaline I get when I play that way. Why don't I just faction fit everything? Because I can't afford to PLEX everytime I make a mistake and die, and I don't have enough RL time to grind level4s all day.
You pay $15 extra per month or ~500 million ISK, as well as the cost of the booster hull, to have that OGB alt. From a cost perspective that's no advantage. The only advantage to a booster alt is that while a more expensive ship or expensive fittings would show your advantage, whereas having an OGB does not.
Quote:Having ganglinks gives your small gang more of a margin between being overwhelmed and holding a strategic position, even with both sides running links it still gives you a broader field to play in. It won't make up for lack of skill or negate the advantage of having a bigger, better gunned fleet, but it does give a smaller fleet, especially one pushing their skillset to the limits, more of a chance of making a good account of themselves against a bigger foe.
Example? How does everyone on the field having 30% more shield HP, or more velocity, or longer point range, tip the scales in favor of a small gang?
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:Maybe thats how it works in RvB joke pvp.
The person who won't PVP without having his ship boosted out the ass is lambasting others for "joke PVP".
You're only helping my point about your inflated ego. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Do you even PvP dude? If I faction fit every ship I flew, then when I jump into a 0.0 camp and just get blobbed with no hope of survival... I'd be grinding level4s 90% of the time while trying to pvp 10% of the time.
That is very anti-fun.
If you faction-fit your ship to boost it as much as a booster alt does, sure. Faction equipment gives you small boosts for lots of ISK because the ability to boost your capabilities while hiding it from your enemy is an extremely powerful advantage. That's why OGB is so broken.
You haven't answered my question as to why you don't just fly slightly shinier ships. Assault frigates are not expensive and you can fight outnumbered against t1 frigs or destroyers all day and still have a chance at winning. Why don't you just engage small groups of cheaper ships? Faction equipment isn't required.
Quote:Because if OGBs are removed and the small gang doesn't have the extra 30% everything, they will just get raped.
As will they when the blob also has 30% extra everything, as they will even harder when only the blob has 30% extra everything. I fail to see your point, other than that off grid boosts provide unfair bonuses which you've completely failed to justify other than "they let me engage more powerful things because they make my ship better". |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:It gives you a bigger margin to play with - even when both sides are using it - which gives more room for mistakes to be made, more room for manouverability, etc. i.e. if your both pointing to 50km instead of 25km that means you can sit well outside the close range high damage turret ships and instead of getting instantly melted you can probe for weaknesses and try to pick stuff off, etc.
You seem to be talking about the relative benefits of Loki speed/point range boosts when the small gang consists of nanoships and the blob consists of slow, close-range ships. The advantage to the small gang in your example comes from the fact that ships that take full advantage out of kiting close range high damage ships and pointing from far away happen to benefit most from a certain type of boost.
Now imagine the same situation except everyone has Tengu boosts. The nanogang still goes down fast if they get tackled or become trackable, and the 30% extra shield HP doesn't change that...But any individual ships that get separated from the group take longer to kill, and they have more time to fill weak points. In the same situation, Tengu boosts would advantage the blob far more than the small gang. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:This is you not understanding gang bonus mechanics.
-Liang
How so? Set one person as the fleet booster and put the right people in the squad/wing/fleet command positions and everyone gets boosts. Where is this incorrect?
Quote:I'm talking about one example of many possible ones and it doesn't always work out in your favor, but in the position of smaller fleet V blob you'd be making use of the links that gave you the most chances to control range and get out if your overwhelmed.
And with Loki boosts the larger gang has a better chance of running you down and stopping you from getting away. I fail to see the advantage. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 18:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:Boosts from squad 1 don't go to squad 2. You need boosts for all the squads and all the wings.
...yes...which is why I said fleet booster, not wing booster or squad booster. A fleet booster boosts the whole fleet. If your fleet fits inside a single wing, then a wing booster will boost the whole fleet.
Quote:And this leads back to what I've been saying: ships that are capable of providing links do not adequately fit into the gangs that really need them. There are some core problems with simply bringing links on the field that must be solved first.
Not arguing that point - merely that off grid boosts are bullshit. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.
The game as it stands would be better without boosts at all...And if certain command ships were underpowered to the point that they weren't used, it would still be an improvement over the current situation. The only reason why I would call for a rebalance first rather than just nerfing them into the ground until they can be fixed is that it would be unfair to the people who currently have SP in leadership and dumped ISK into CS/boosting t3s. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Yeah, but they aren't talking about removing boosts in general. Only Off grid boosters. And if this is the way that it is going to be then small gangs will have nothing to answer for a larger force who happens to also have a command ship on field.
I fail to see how that's different than the current situation.
Quote:But I guess your solution of "faction fit everything" could solve that.
No, my solution is to stop believing you're entitled to have statistical advantages over everyone.
Quote: I think your playing the wrong game... otherwise you'd better start calling to nerfs to implants, cynos, cloaking devices, etc. to.
Implants are a stupid mechanic because there's such a difference in risk between fighting in lowsec vs nullsec...in the former, it's very easy to keep them even if you explode a lot. Cyno hotdrops are equally dumb.
So I guess the only thing in your list that isn't broken is cloaks, as they have plenty of built-in disadvantages. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:Yeah I remember how you were **** talking me about my implants because of low sec. While I lived in a wormhole.
I recall explaining why I thought implants were a poor mechanic. I never bashed you specifically for using them. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
476
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 19:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote: Oh? So I can't have implants? I'm not entitled to use them?
What about faction fits? I thought you said I should faction fit everything? Lol?
How dare I have an advantage?! You are right, I should start every fight with an ibis... That way I won't ever have any advantages over other players. This game is all about fairness after al
Already answered; the statistical advantages from invisible things like faction mods are minor. Even the statistical advantages of things like implants are pretty small relative to cost.
Regardless, there's little point in continuing this since apparently everyone's bitty. CCP and the CSM have already spoken, and OGBs are not going to be here for very long. |
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